Massive England fan here, and I'm disgusted (but not surprised) by the reaction from a lot of people to England appointing Tuchel to the job. Some of it is just xenophobia because he's German, but a lot of it is this idea that the manager has to be English and not necessarily against Tuchel.
In an ideal world, should the England manager be English? Sure, it would be nice, but let's have a look at the state of English managers shall we?
The last English manager to win a trophy across the top 5 leagues was Harry Redknapp in 2008, a League Cup with Spurs, the team constantly mocked for never winning anything. That's 16 years without a trophy for English managers in top league/cup competitions.
Harry Redknapp was also the last manager to win a knockout stage in the Champions League (not counting Leicester interim coach after they fired Ranieri). Redknapp and Bobby Robson are the only English managers to win 5 or more games in the Champions League. These are not big requirements we are talking about.
As far as I know, the ONLY active English manager to win a top flight trophy in any European league is Steven Gerrard with Rangers. And nobody rates Gerrard as a manager.
The same issue that's been raised about England players barely playing abroad, which we are now starting to see a shift in with the likes of Kane, Diet, Bellingham, Loftus-Cheek, Tomori, Abraham… exists with our managers. Will Still and Liam Rosenior (Ligue 1) are the only English managers to have a job in the biggest European leagues outside of England. Even leagues like the Eredivisie, Portuguese and Turkish leagues, that have massive clubs, are bereft of English managers. So for all the whining that English managers don't get the opportunity in the Premier League and foreign managers are taking their opportunities, English managers don't go abroad either. Real Madrid, Barcelona, Atlético Madrid all have foreign managers. PSG, Bayern, Leverkusen. There are plenty of Spanish, Italian and German managers across all leagues, and they are good managers with trophies and accolades to their name.
You may think it's unfair to criticise English managers for lack of winning when they only manage in England and have less opportunities. Let's look at some more stats.
From 1992 since the Premier League was founded until 2018, according to this article only 6 English managers have won a trophy, but English managers lost 21 cup finals (10 FA cups and 11 League cups).
In 2020 both the FA Cup and the League Cup were lost by English managers (Lampard and Dean Smith). In 2021, Spurs famously sacked Jose Mourinho, serial cup winner, and wouldn't you know, appointed English interim Ryan Mason to lose another League Cup final. Was it fair to Mason? Probably not, but Mourinho could actually have won that game. And in 2023, Eddie Howe, everyone's favourite English manager, lost to City in another cup final. So English managers have had 31 cracks at cup silverware since 1992 and won 6 and lost 25. And before anyone defends Howe for losing to City, I remind you Ten Hag is currently in a job for beating Pep's City in 2 finals. Let's not even get into league titles, as an English manager has never won the Premier League. We can objectively establis English managers are serial losers.
Then there's the camp of people who say that in international football management trophies aren't a prerequisite, look at De La Fuente for Spain. I live in Spain, the De La Fuente appointment was crucified in the media, as was his squad for the Euros. As brilliant as they then ended up playing, they should have gone out against Germany, and they also scored in the dying moments of the final against England which should have gone to penalties. Carsley should not have been appointed just because De La Fuente did a good job, he's the exception. Scaloni won the World Cup because he had Messi, not because he's some great manager.
Vicente del Bosque, the architect of Spain 10-12, had already won 2 leagues and 2 Champions leagues at Real Madrid. Luis Aragonés before him in Euro 08: league with Atlético Madrid, 4 Copas del Rey with Atleti and Barcelona. Even Deschamps and Low have won league titles at club level before switching to international football. If you want to take it even further back, Lippi (Italy 06) 13 major honours for Juventus, Scolari (Brazil 02) countless Brazilian trophies, Jacquet (France 98) multiple league titles with Bordeaux.
Do not get sucked in to this narrative the English media are trying to peddle about St George's Park and coming through the coaching system. The last great English managers were Bobby Robson and Terry Venables. Go and get a manager with pedigree like Tuchel, and give him a WC and a Euros. Southgate lost 2 finals, and whilst I recognise the fact that no other England manager has ever gotten to two finals, or any final since 1966, he lost a home final and a final in Berlin. Out of the whole entire world, if there are two places England have got to win in, it's England and Germany. But hey, we couldn't get it done in Germany so now we bring in a German, and I for one couldn't be happier.
And pundits like Gary Neville and Carragher should be ashamed of themselves. Do you think Carragher would be complaining about German managers if Klopp had gotten the job? Would anyone be complaining if Pep got the job? And Gary Neville, the streets will never forget your managerial disaster class at Valencia, or the fact that you were part of the whole Southgate FA boys clubs.
Sorry for the long winded rant but I keep seeing all these TikToks and pundits and can't fit all of this into their comment sections. Driving me nuts.
by WhoLetTheKrakenOut
2 Comments
This is simply the kind of thinking (or not) that prevents England from winning shit for almost 60 years and counting
Harry won it with Portsmouth not Spurs.
That is just a side point the rest of your post gives a lot of valid points